Commons:Translators' noticeboard

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Translators' noticeboard

This is a noticeboard for all matters regarding translation of pages, and a meeting place for the translation administrators. Useful links: Documentation for the translation extension, Tutorial for translators. See also the sisterpage m:Meta talk:Babylon.

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Gallery's and filenames in translation

I was just going through Commons:Threshold of originality and did some tweaks. It appears that the entire gallery is wrapped in translate tags when it should be just the captions. If someone gets sometime, do help taking care of this. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 16:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This also appears with some wikitables and Charts used on the page. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 16:15, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Pols12, do you happen to have some time to help with this? I did some tweaks a while ago and removed some unwarranted stuff out of translation. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 07:58, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry The Aafī, tweaking this page segmentation would require to also quickly update translation pages. I haven’t enough time to proceed, especially since I’m not a Tadmin on Commons and since Italian translation is not up-to-date. -- Pols12 (talk) 14:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheAafi and Pols12: The pages Commons:Threshold of originality/be-tarask, Commons:Threshold of originality/id, and Commons:Threshold of originality/pt-br, are also broken somehow. They are at Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls. --Jarekt (talk) 13:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jarekt: Thanks for the report. I will take care of fixing some errors that are caused by the translation markup updates. ─ Aafī (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That’s probably because of massive use of {{Pg}}. Though, I don’t understand why not all translations are affected. Maybe because of some heavier or lighter fallbacks. -- Pols12 (talk) 20:26, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lua errors and template loops on translated pages

The following translated pages have some lua errors (Category:Pages with script errors), template loops (Category:Pages with template loops) or some other template issues (Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls). It seems like the english versions of the same pages don't have the same issue. Can someone compare the translations to the originals and fix the template calls in translations, or even better keep text to translate separate from template calls.

Jarekt (talk) 13:15, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On some pages, I don't see any translations that need to be updated. There's nothing at Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag/ar that I could see. Similarly, on Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar, there is only one paragraph translated. Rest is everything from the English version. Perhaps our template masters and expert TAs would be able to detect where this is coming from. @Ameisenigel and @Tacsipacsi: do you apparently see any problem? ─ Aafī (talk) 14:07, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is indeed not a new one. We have had a similar discussion quite some time ago ([1]). Unfortunately I do not know the solution for these problems. --Ameisenigel (talk) 14:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheAafi and Ameisenigel: I was just looking at Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar. I think the issue is trigered by use of {{Pg}} in page name translation of Commons:Reuse_of_PD-Art_photographs/ar. How do we fix it? --Jarekt (talk) 04:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the page name translation and it doesn't help. One of the reasons that might be causing this error is keeping too much codes and stuff inside translation markup. However, this requires a lot of manual working. ─ Aafī (talk) 05:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheAafi: That fixed the issue on Commons:Copyright tags/General public domain/ar and Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag/ar pages. Thanks. --Jarekt (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve modified Module:Pg to handle errors instead of preventing them – this made the expensive parser function count on Commons:Threshold of originality/pt-br to go down from 501 to 498, bringing it just under the limit (and at the same time decreased the number of database rows, which is good for phab:T343131). The other two COM:TOO translations seem to have been fixed in the meantime (before my edit to Module:Pg).

Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Consolidated list South America/mk is simply too big, I don’t think we can do much about it – except for asking someone to finish the translation, as the lot of <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> markup increases the page size considerably (a plus of about 21-22 kiB if I count correctly, or ~1% of the include size limit of 2 MiB). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tacsipacsi, I guess Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Consolidated list South America is just too big and might need to be split into smaller regions. @Aymatth2: , as a creator of this page. Do you think we can split it into East/West or North/South, or into some other logical groupings. File:South America Color-coded Regions.png seems to show regions but without names. --Jarekt (talk) 14:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can take a shot at splitting it up along the boundaries of File:South America Color-coded Regions.png, which I would call Southern Cone, Western, the Guianas and Brazil (which does not need an entry). But I will ask for some help in sorting out the translations. My skills are getting very rusty. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I suppose there is not much to translate, and no big hurry. I doubt that these overview pages are viewed very much. They were mainly made to ease the transition from one huge page with all the copyright rules to pages for each country or territory. Aymatth2 (talk) 15:19, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aymatth2 and Tacsipacsi: The errors in Commons:Threshold of originality/be-tarask and Commons:Threshold of originality/pt-br reappeared. The page Commons:Threshold of originality uses 133/500 expensive parser functions while /be-tarask and /pt-br versions have over 500 of them. I was trying to figure out where are they coming from and {{Commons policies and guidelines}} template is responsible for many of them. {{Commons policies and guidelines/en}} has 71 {{Pg}} templates is using 71 expensive parser functions, while /be-tarask and /pt-br versions have 147 expensive parser functions. I wonder if we can rewrite that template somehow to use less expensive parser functions. Maybe we can call something else than {{Pg}} or write something similar to {{Lle}} to cash info on existing and not existing translations of each page and periodically refresh the list. Another option is to figure out where the rest of expensive parser functions come from. Any ideas? --Jarekt (talk) 04:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid I am out of my depth here. {{Pg}} is very widely used, though. Better would be to fix it to avoid the expensive parser functions. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jarekt: Sorry for the slow response. I fear almost all expensive parser functions (both those that can be seen on Template:Commons policies and guidelines/be-tarask and those that can’t) come from Module:Pg: the module checks if the target page exists in the current language if the current language is not English (and assumes it does if the current language is English). This cannot be avoided without serving tons of red links to users. Doing something like {{Lle}} is not impossible, but maintenance would be a pain – much more so than for {{Lle}} itself, because one needs to account for different pages existing in different languages, and translation pages aren’t directly editable anyway.

My only guess is inventing a new parser tag, which can handle these links much like normal links, with the only exception being that it doesn’t change the link color (i.e. CSS class) when the page doesn’t exist, but rather changes the link target to point to Special:MyLanguage. Since red links don’t count as expensive parser functions, hopefully these wouldn’t either. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:14, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A handful of File: namespace timed text translations still exist

Does anyone here have experience with migrating timed text to its new namespace and can do so for the pages listed below? I have noticed that just a handful of these pages keep showing up on some maintenance pages I frequent (Special:UncategorizedPages and Special:UncategorizedFiles).

The pages are:

File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt (en, es, eu, fi, fr, id, ja, pl, sco, sv, uk, zh)
File:Wikipedia on GLAM-Tour Kulturkooperationen für lokale Wikipedia-Gruppen.webm/srt (ar, arz, da, de, en, en-gb, fr, ru, uk)

Clay (talk) 16:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not about how new the namespace is (notice that TimedText:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm.en.srt was created three days before File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt), it’s about how easy translating the subtitle is. Ideally, TimedText was integrated with Extension:Translate to allow translating the closed captions in the right namespace (which wasn’t unprecedented, e.g. CentralNotice is integrated to allow translating central notices), but we’re (AFAIK) not there yet. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand your reply. Does that mean these pages are now fine to delete? Or does someone need to look through them and migrate them from the File namespace to the TimedText namespace manually? I see on e.g. File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt/de and other similar now-deleted pages that most of these were deleted at the end of last year. Clay (talk) 18:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally, phab:T44495 would be resolved before deleting anything. However, given that there was zero progress in the past almost seven years, it seems unlikely to be resolved in the near future. In that case, I’m not sure what the best solution is. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As one can see on File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt/de, it was deleted after having been transferred to TimedText:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm.de.srt. Translations like File:.../srt/.. have been a good idea but they are completely useless for the videos they are connected with. --Achim55 (talk) 19:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, didn't notice this topic earlier. Months ago I created User:Achim55/TimedText pages to be checked and since then I'm working on that step by step. --Achim55 (talk) 18:54, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At Category:Timed Text in file namespace, I made a maintenance category for those, to avoid they keep appearing on Special:UncategorizedPages (VP/T).

Please mark the two for translation so the category gets added to all language versions. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This wouldn't actually require the category to be translated, but just add it there. It has been done for "File:The GLAM-Wiki Revolution.webm/srt" in the meantime. For "File:Wikipedia on GLAM-Tour Kulturkooperationen für lokale Wikipedia-Gruppen.webm/srt", if one doesn't want the deletion request to appear on all versions, one could remove that first and readd it afterwards. Enhancing999 (talk) 11:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Enhancing999 I marked File:Wikipedia on GLAM-Tour Kulturkooperationen für lokale Wikipedia-Gruppen.webm/srt for translation at your request. However, I have discouraged it from being translated. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 18:52, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Commons:Village_pump/Technical#Template:Userpage_formatting

You are invited to join the discussion at Commons:Village_pump/Technical#Template:Userpage_formatting. Sdkb ^talk 16:43, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Sisterprojects

I began the process of switching ~150 Category:Sisterproject templates to modern translation format. I created Template:Sisterprojects/i18n and a calling template {{Sisterprojects}}, now I am working on moving translations from old format to the new. Templates waiting to be moved can be found in Category:Sisterproject templates and the one I already did in Category:Sisterproject templates (unified). I can use some help, with the transition process as it takes longer than expected. Jarekt (talk) 12:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also can someone look into "bh" language? it is mostly translated but does not have Template:Sisterprojects/i18n/bh subtemplate. --Jarekt (talk) 12:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jarekt: Great job. I am done with 85% translation of the Urdu version. ─ Aafī (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Patrolling translations

How are edits like Special:Diff/901608551 reverted? --Geohakkeri (talk) 13:09, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Geohakkeri: In some cases, it does allow you to revert these translations with the rollback tool. In others, you just need to review the history and manually restore the translation. Even so, the edits were reverted and restored.--Mazbel (Talk) 05:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In that specific case the problem was that it was the first translation for that segment. So there was no version to revert the Translations: page to as I did in Special:Diff/901611873. Achim55 deleted the translation – was that indeed the only option? If so, how is a translation like that marked as a CSD? Simply by applying the {{SD}} template? It feels a bit silly, somehow. --Geohakkeri (talk) 15:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A recommendation!

Can we make a recommendation somewhere that folks who ask for TA rights provide a sample first per internationalisation guidelines before they are granted the flag? This is so because on Commons, if anyone asks for the flag at BN, a 'crat would unlikely get into a lot of stuff related to i18n - I just realised this should be mentioned somewhere that although the flag is granted by a 'crat, it is recommended to produce a translation markup sample? Opinions or do you think I'm being too bureaucratic? _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 09:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with Commons:Flickr2Commons

So this project page was once translatable, but the user John Cummings made some big changes, and it became no longer translatable. So we now have a bunch of subpages (Commons:Flickr2Commons/de, Commons:Flickr2Commons/zh) which are no longer connected to any translation units, and a bunch of translation units (Translations:Commons:Flickr2Commons/1/de) which aren't connected to anything. Though someone has updated Commons:Flickr2Commons/es manually. I have created User:Matrix/sandbox3 which has translate tags.

So is the following ok?

Delete all the old translation units
Delete all the language subpages except es
Replace Commons:Flickr2Commons with User:Matrix/sandbox3 and mark for translation
Use Special:PageMigration to migrate Commons:Flickr2Commons/es manually.

—Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 06:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Matrix. The page was removed from Translation by @Jdx on 25 May 2017. Current revision can be prepared and marked for translation, and we can easily restore any previously existing translation units if they are up-to-date. #4 is tricky because the subpage is not a part of translation system. It would need to be manually copied over unit by unit. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 16:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

but since translation exists, we won't be losing anything in the process. Any excessive and unrequired stuff at the end can be deleted. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 16:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I won't suggestion deleting old translation units, neither deletion of sub-pages. Keep them as they are. Mark the current revision for translation. Keep the history of subpages intact. Easily bring up translations from there. Delete anything that seems irrelevant. _Regards,Aafi ^(talk) 17:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Matrix and Aafi: It would be a bad idea to delete old pages that have already been translated. In fact, if you mark the main page for translation (Commons:Flickr2Commons), including the languages: de, zh, es as translation priority, they should be excluded and you may get a "translation out of date" message. Regarding this page (Translations:Commons:Flickr2Commons/1/de), it would be better to delete it, as it would be orphaned.--Mazbel (Talk) 02:12, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've marked Commons:Flickr2Commons for translation and migrated the es subpage, is there anything else to do? —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 06:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]